The wrote:
|
# and below is the source from which these internet munafiqs get their "interpretation", and then distort the quran to make it agreeable to their kufr:
According to Crone and Cook the term Islam (and the corresponding word Muslim) in the sense of "submission to God" was borrowed from the Samaritans (Crone-Cook 1977:19-20). Crone and Cook maintain that "the verb aslama has cognates in Hebrew, Aramaic and Syriac, but whereas neither Jewish nor Christian literature provides satisfactory precedent for the Islamic usage, we find exact parallels to Islam in [the Memar Marqah], which is the most important Samaritan text of the pre-Islamic period." (Crone-Cook 1977:19,169; Macdonald 1963:85) They go on to say that, "the plausible sense of the root to invoke here is that of peace' and the sense of to make peace.' The reinterpretation of this conception in terms of the ultimately dominant sense of submission' can readily be seen as intended to differentiate the Hagarene covenant from that of Judaism." (Crone-Cook 1977:20)
# the line under the text added by me!
## as v can see.....these munafiqs simply steal ideas from the work of other disbelievers and try to present them as the lost (proper) understanding! : grin :
|
Quote:
|
a. They have faith and trust in The God
b. They have faith in the messengers
c. They have faith in the angels
d. They have faith in all The God's revelations
e. They have faith in the unseen
f. They have faith in the Last Day and certainty regarding the hereafter
g. They attain the status of having no doubt whatsoever
h. They counter evil works with good works
i. They strive with their lives and money in the way of The God
j. Their hearts tremble when The God is mentioned
k. Their faith is strengthened by hearing The God's revelations
l. They uphold the timed/regular salaat
m. They give to charity
n. They contribute to betterment/zakaat.
o. They fast for periods of time to establish patience
p. They free the slaves
q. They keep their word whenever they make a promise
r. They steadfastly persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and war
According to this definition of al-qur'aan, one can be a mumin only if one has ALL the above traits. Any element missing from the above traits and they are not mumins. Thus if Abraham only believed in The God, does not make him a mumin !!
|
Tanveer wrote:
|
He believed and submitted at the same time.
|
Tanveer wrote:
|
One cannot say from the verse that he believed first and then submitted.
|
Tanveer wrote:
|
Even then he just believed in God and not all other things which are a requirement for a believer/mumin per the Qur'aanic definition which I quoted in an earlier post,
|
Tanveer wrote:
|
so one cannot say that the Firon was a mumin/believer.
|
Tanveer wrote:
|
Thus he would have been a submitter first and a mumin later if he had lived and fulfilled ALL the criteria of a mumin.
|
Tanveer wrote:
|
If many things are separated by a "wa", it does not necessarily mean that the thing mentioned first happened first; all of them can happen at the same time.
|
Tanveer wrote:
|
Consider the following verses:
2:129 "Our Lord, and send amongst them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the Scripture and the wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise."
2:151 As We have sent a messenger to you from amongst yourselves to recite Our revelations to you, and purify you, and teach you the Scripture and the wisdom, and teach you what you did not know.
In 2:129, the order is recite, teach, purify and in 2:151 the order is recite, purify, teach. This can only mean that all those things happened at same time or did Allah make a mistake here by saying teach first and then purify in 2:129 and purify first and then teach in 2:151 ? Think about it !
|
Irrelevant
How about you consider the following verse:
What! shall We then make (that is, treat) those who submit as the guilty?
[The Quran ; 68:35]
أَفَنَجْعَلُ الْمُسْلِمِينَ كَالْمُجْرِمِينَ (35)
-> Allah is wondering :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? What! shall We then make (that is, treat) those who submit as the guilty?????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, now I also wonder where the Mumineen fitting in this verse?, would that mean that Allah will never make the Muslimeen as the guilty, but He can make the Mumineen as the guilty?, of course not , the Muslimeen covers the Mumineen as I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m saying all along and hardly no one wants to listen in this place
Even the verse used by the advocate of this non sense that it is to submit first then believe second, as an evidence to their non sense exposes their ignorance big times, let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s have a look:
52- (As to) those whom We gave the Book before it, they are believers in it.
53- And when it is recited to them they say: We believe in it surely it is the truth from our Lord; surely we were submitters before this.
[The Quran ; 28:52-53]
الَّذِينَ آتَيْنَاهُمُ الْكِتَابَ مِن قَبْلِهِ هُم بِهِ يُؤْمِنُونَ (52)
وَإِذَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْهِمْ قَالُوا آمَنَّا بِهِ إِنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا مِن قَبْلِهِ مُسْلِمِينَ (53)
-> The verses above are talking about those who were given another scripture before the Quran, like the Jews or the Christians :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? (As to) those whom We gave the Book before it,????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? the Book is referring to a previous scripture that was given to them and the it in ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????before it????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? is referring to the Quran, this verse is telling us that those who received other scriptures in the past BELIVED in these scriptures :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? they are believers in it????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the it in: in it is referring to the scriptures given to them, NOT the Quran, i.e. they were believers in the scripture sent to them before the Quran, the next verse is telling us that they were also submitters, of course being a Muslim can apply to all those believers before Islam because they believed then submitted to Allah (if they have done so), in fact the Quran describes many righteous people before Islam as being Muslims
-> When the Quran was delivered and recited to those (already BELIVERS in the previous scriptures sent to them), they quickly believed in the Quran because they already submitted to Allah in the past after they believed in the past :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? And when it is recited to them they say????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, the it is referring to the Quran, and them is referring to those early BELIVERS mentioned in the previous verse, and when the heard the Quran they quickly declared their belief in it :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? We believe in it surely it is the truth from our Lord????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, now it is totally misleading to think of those as being disbelievers before the Quran, indeed they were 100% believers as 28:52 told us, they just believed in a new thing that is sent to them in addition to what the believed in the past, they have done that because they were submitters in addition to being believers :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????surely we were submitters before this.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, this in before this refers to the Quran and it means before the Quran, i.e. they were true submitters to Allah as well believers before the Quran, they were not new believers as many try to tell us by wrongly understanding this verse.
Let????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s look at another compelling verse that Islam is a higher status of Iman:
Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
[The Quran ; 16:102]
قُلْ نَزَّلَهُ رُوحُ الْقُدُسِ مِن رَّبِّكَ بِالْحَقِّ لِيُثَبِّتَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ وَهُدًى وَبُشْرَى لِلْمُسْلِمِينَ (102)
-> There is no doubt that the above verse clearly tells us that Islam is higher status than Iman, the verse is telling us about the important objectives of the Quran :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to..????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, now, if the belief is the end of it and not submission then the following objectives do not make sense :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????.. to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, let me break up the objectives:
1) to strengthen those who believe (why they need to strength their belief if they have reached the higher status of Iman?, it actually sounds more as to strengthen their belief so they achieve submission status, don????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢t you reckon?)
2) and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims. (I have to ask, how about the Guide and Glad Tidings for the believers?, did they miss out and the Quran is only to strengthen their belief?, some might say that the Quran said in another location that it is Huda Wa Bushra for the believers, however I????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢m talking this verse where both are mentioned, in the other locations it was only the believers mentioned)
Indeed we believe first then we submit second, this is how it should make sense to even a child as long as the child is not PROGRAMMED that this is how it is regardless, see if we submit first then believe second it should violate the freewill given to believe ????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????Mn Shaa Fal Yumin Wa Mn Shaa Fal Yakfur????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? i.e.:
If you submit first then believe second, your belief is based on submission (there is no strength in submission, you just submit). But if you believe first then submit second, then your submission is based on your strength of belief.
IT MAKES 100% SENSE, those who ignore all these compelling evidences are nothing but as arrogant as the Sunni Muslims who hear the truth and refuse to accept it, let me give you one more compelling evidence:
The verse below is talking about the magicians after their defeat by Moses, they declared their belief in Allah signs, but Pharaoh threaten them because THEY BELIEVED WITHOUT HIS PERMISSION, he ordered that one of their hand and the opposite leg to be cut for every one of them, now that is one tough test of submission to Allah, indeed this is exactly what they wished for which is to pass that tough submission test after their belief as we read in their replies to Pharaoh????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢s threats:
And you do not take revenge on us except because we have believed in the signs of our Lord when they came to us! Our Lord: Pour out upon us patience and cause us to die in submission.
[The Quran ; 7:126]
وَمَا تَنقِمُ مِنَّا إِلاَّ أَنْ آمَنَّا بِآيَاتِ رَبِّنَا لَمَّا جَاءتْنَا رَبَّنَا أَفْرِغْ عَلَيْنَا صَبْرًا وَتَوَفَّنَا مُسْلِمِينَ (126)
-> See what they said to Pharaoh :????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????And you do not take revenge on us except because we have believed in the signs of our Lord when they came to us!????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????, i.e. THEY ALREADY BELIEVERS, now are they submitters?, well, this is what they hoped for after hearing Pharaoh threats:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????Our Lord: Pour out upon us patience and cause us to die in submission., HOW CLEAR IS THAT, THEY DIDN????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¢T EVEN KNOW IF THEY WILL BE SUBMITTERS UNDER THE TOUGH TEST THEY INCURED SHORTLY AFTER THAT CONFRONTATION, they asked Allah to give them patience and they also asked Him to make them die Muslims, they never declared that they were Muslims, they only hoped to die Muslims after their belief:????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬???????????????????????????? Pour out upon us patience and cause us to die in submission.????????????????????????????¢?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¬????????????????????????????
Salam
- Mon 19 Feb, 2007 6:29 pm
Post subject:
Hello All
I didn't copy all the comments made in the discussion, you can read it in: http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13499.0
Salam
All times are GMT + 10 Hours
Powered by phpBB 2.0 .0.17 © 2001
phpBB
Group